Episode 112 of the Public Key podcast is right here and that is our “Stay from Hyperlinks” sequence, the place we showcase our podcasts recorded dwell at the Chainalysis Hyperlinks Convention in NYC. A case that concerned crypto, terrorist financing, weapons and every thing in between. We converse with a number of key members of the Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace, together with the District Legal professional, Alvin Bragg, the Assistant District Legal professional, Edward Burns and the Chief of the Counterterrorism Unit, David Stuart, in addition to Dan Heesemann, Intelligence Analysis Specialist at the NYPD .
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Public Key Episode 112: How Cryptocurrency Helped Convict a NYC Based mostly Terrorist
“In a approach, in the event you had been a juror on this case, you bought educated on cryptocurrency, terrorist financing, and likewise the Syrian Civil Battle.” – Edward Burns
On this episode, Ian Andrews (CMO, Chainalysis) has a full home as he speaks to a number of key members of the Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace, together with the District Legal professional, Alvin Bragg, the Assistant District Legal professional, Edward Burns and the Chief of the Counterterrorism Unit, David Stuart. In addition to Dan Heesemann, Intelligence Analysis Specialist at the NYPD.
The crew discusses an enchanting case involving cryptocurrency and terrorism financing and shares how they had been in a position to uncover a person sending cash to a terrorist group in Syria and planning violent assaults on American soil.
They stroll by means of the challenges of presenting technical proof in courtroom and the shocking protection technique utilized by the defendant.
This gripping episode sheds gentle on the intersection of crime, cryptocurrency, and counterterrorism efforts and the persistence and collaboration regulation enforcement and the District Legal professional’s workplace need to make the most of in order to convey these criminals to justice.
Quote of the episode
“In a approach, in the event you had been a juror on this case, you bought educated on cryptocurrency, terrorist financing, and likewise the Syrian Civil Battle… In order that was rather a lot for them to digest” – Edward Burns (Assistant District Legal professional, Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace)
Minute-by-minute episode breakdown
2 | Background of the public sector friends and their entrance into cryptocurrency
4 | The Folks vs. Victoria Jacobs: The cryptocurrency terrorist financing case
9 | Unveiling the terrorist financier’s intent and ways
14 | The elusive Salman Belarusi: Operational safety mastermind
18 | Simplifying cryptocurrency for jury understanding
20 | Terrorism, cryptocurrency and the Syrian Battle
22 | Jury deliberates for hours and finds the defendant responsible on all counts
25 | Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg explains offers an replace on sentencing and closure in case
Associated sources
Take a look at extra sources offered by Chainalysis that completely complement this episode of the Public Key.
Audio system on as we speak’s episode
- Ian Andrews * Host * (Chief Advertising and marketing Officer, Chainalysis)
- Alvin Bragg (District Legal professional, Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace)
- Edward Burns (Assistant District Legal professional, Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace)
- David Stuart (Chief of the Counterterrorism Unit, Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace)
- Dan Heesemann (Intelligence Analysis Specialist, NYPD)
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Transcript
Ian:
Hey everybody. Welcome again to a different episode of Public Key Stay from Hyperlinks. That is your host, Ian Andrews. We’ve acquired a bunch for this one, of us. I’m joined by David Stewart, who’s chief of the Counterterrorism Unit, Manhattan DA’s workplace. Edward Burns, who’s assistant district legal professional in the Manhattan DA’s workplace. And Dan Heesemann, who’s intelligence analysis specialist, NYPD. Gents, welcome to the present.
David:
Thanks.
Ed:
Nice to be right here.
David:
Yeah, nice to be right here.
Ian:
Now possibly we are able to simply run down the line right here, beginning with you, Ed. Fast background, 30 seconds to a minute. Why are you right here at the Crypto Convention? What do you do? What’s your day job? How does this all match collectively?
Ed:
So I’ve been at the Manhattan DA’s workplace since September of 2005. I’ve labored my approach up by means of varied bureaus. I did work in narcotics, white collar crime and joined the Rackets Bureau, which homes Dave’s unit in Counterterrorism again in 2022. And as soon as I acquired there, I used to be assigned to assist out Dave in this actually fascinating case they advised me known as the individuals versus Victoria Jacobs. And that’s how I acquired concerned in the cryptocurrency world.
Ian:
Superb.
Dan:
Certain. So I’m Dan Heesemann, I’m an Intel analysis specialist with the NYPD, and I’m a Queen’s child, born and raised. And so got here out of school, discovered what I wished to do and I assumed the NYPD appeared like a superb place to go; profession, household and civil service. And simply discovered the be the finest place to go. In order that’s how I ended up right here. I’ve been right here for nearly seven years now. It’s scary to consider. And despite the fact that I’m not a math particular person by coronary heart, again in 2019, we determined we wished to do extra in monetary crimes they usually wanted a pair of individuals. And I stated, properly, in fourth grade, a nun made me [inaudible 00:01:49] the blackboard as a result of I couldn’t do lengthy imaginative and prescient, however I’ll be your level particular person.
Ian:
For monetary crimes. I can take that on, but it surely’s clearly gone moderately properly since then-
Dan:
I might say so-
Ian:
… since you’re nonetheless right here.
David:
So my title is Dave Stewart. I’m a California child who by some means ended up in New York and I’ve been at the Manhattan DA’s workplace now for about 17 years. I’m at present chief of the counterterrorism unit, however I’ve achieved slightly bit of every thing all through the workplace over that point working in the trial division, doing intercourse crimes instances, human trafficking, organized crime like La Cosa Nostra mafia instances, and now I’ve been doing counterterrorism instances for the previous 5 – 6 years, which have been actually fascinating insights into the approach individuals take into consideration the world and what motivates them.
Ian:
Properly, I positively wish to get into that. The three of you actually simply got here off stage earlier than leaping in right here to document with us presenting at the convention on the case that you just simply talked about, Ed. So possibly who desires to take us by means of the excessive degree of what this case was, The Folks versus Victoria Jacobs.
David:
I’ll begin at a excessive degree after which possibly Dan and Ed can type of leap in and fill in the gaps or the particulars. So at the highest degree, you might have a girl who lived in New York Metropolis who turned immersed inside terrorist on-line ecosystems in Syria and different locations, and primarily turned obsessive about doing Jihad. And one of the ways in which she might try this was to finance and launder cash for these teams abroad.
And what we discovered is that she in the end despatched and laundered over $12,000 over a nine-month time interval in 2008 and 2019, however she didn’t cease there. She then despatched the group bomb making directions in order that they might make IEDs and kill individuals with them. And he or she additionally acquired unlawful knives right here in New York Metropolis and advised those that she was planning a particular mission to hold out behind enemy strains.
And I feel code for her enemy strains was individuals proper right here in New York Metropolis. So a really scary, harmful particular person. And due to NYPD and the relaxation of the crew, we had been in a position to make arrests and cost her and in the end convict her of terrorism crimes after a three-week jury trial simply this final January.
Ian:
What was the tip or the lead that uncovered this? How did all of it begin, that possibly now we have someone right here who’s doing a little actually unhealthy stuff.
David:
I’ll let Dan leap in for this one.
Dan:
So primarily half of the monetary crimes portfolio is studying federal compliance information and making sense of that. And rather a lot of occasions it’s only a lot of, I wish to say narrative. There’s this particular person did X, this particular person did Y, however in this case, we had somebody that was in New York that I feel that is notable for the crypto of us right here, as a result of she was utilizing a nested service.
So the filer that filed this report was not the firm she was utilizing. She was utilizing a service beneath that firm, that was type of like a contracted service. And so I feel she was attempting to be savvy by going outdoors of a US jurisdiction space to ship this cash. However in reality, the mum or dad firm that was offered the spine was compliant with US legal guidelines or written by means of this report. And I stated, “Properly, this isn’t going to work out for us initially, as a result of we’re right here in New York and this firm relies elsewhere.”
However then you definitely learn, they really are compliant, we are able to make this work. So after doing the preliminary tracing the workup on the topic, we came visiting to Dave and I don’t assume we had reactor at the time, as a result of that is so early on to our adoption of cryptocurrency. And I had a chunk of paper I stated, “All proper, so these are cryptocurrency transactions from somebody on the Higher East Facet that ended up in Syria. I do know it’s farfetched, however you assume we’d make this work?” And it labored from there. I feel for the of us on the regulation enforcement facet, pitching to the prosecutors is one of these issues that you just don’t do till that there’s an opportunity that this case might go to trial. And for us, that’s a reasonably excessive bar.
David:
So the humorous half about it’s that previous to Dan strolling into our workplace and pitching us this case, we had been doing rather a lot of terrorism financing work involving Syria. So we had been very acquainted with how Syrian terrorists had been financing their operations there, particularly how they use cryptocurrency. And we had achieved rather a lot of tracing and graphing utilizing chain evaluation at their very early phases of an entity that was an alternate in Syria known as Bitcoin Switch. And it seems that the person that Dan got here walked into our workplace was an unknown pockets that we had recognized about within-
Ian:
Oh, you’re kidding.
David:
… that cluster and tracing graph. And it wasn’t till Dan had type of unpeeled the layers of that onion and recognized it that we had been in a position to see the place she match inside the grander scheme of issues.
Ian:
Wow.
Dan:
[inaudible 00:07:04] he was going from the prime down. We had been going from the backside up, and it type of simply went proper in the center.
David:
So it’s all the time higher to go backside.
Ian:
I’m interested by, as a result of I’m very a lot not acquainted with Syrian terrorist fundraising practices. What’s the scale of that? Are there rather a lot of individuals in the United States who’re sending cash to assist these sorts of causes? Is that this a widespread factor or a excessive greenback worth factor?
Dan:
Not excessive greenback worth map, no. However there are rather a lot of instances that we’ve seen come out in the previous, what, three years in all probability. And the FBI clearly had the majority of them, but it surely’s there. It’s an actual current hazard that individuals assume that they’re right here in the US and that they’ll’t journey there, however they’ll assist them financially. And so they know rather a lot of occasions precisely what they’re sending the cash for.
David:
These teams principally earn their cash from native taxation, extortion rings in different methods. For us, the extra fascinating half of it’s who’re the individuals right here which might be so infatuated with these teams radicalizing that they’re keen to threat ship cash to those teams? So these are those that we’re nervous about from a sort of mobilization of violence situation. Clearly wish to forestall them from financing terrorism, even when it’s low greenback quantities, however clearly very involved that that is the sort of person who’s going to take that subsequent step. We wish to establish them.
Ed:
And I feel you simply touched upon what the greenback quantity is. I might anticipate seeing main greenback quantities transfer by means of in this space, identical to in some other, evaluating different earlier crimes that we’ve investigated, as you’ve cash laundering and compliance and different regulatory our bodies, they know {that a} sure threshold goes to alert everyone up. So it helps these teams to do smaller greenback quantities. And also you see that in cash laundering and even the primary individuals avoiding their forex transaction studies by doing a number of deposits beneath the $10,000 threshold.
So I feel one factor that I’ve realized right here is you’re not going to seek out one group in an organized approach, possibly shifting hundreds of thousands of {dollars}, however as an alternative you possibly can have dozens of individuals shifting $10,000 quantities after which possibly not in an organized approach, however the cash remains to be getting there, but it surely’s simply going to small quantities to kind of keep away from detection and maintain us off the path.
Ian:
No, that’s fascinating. And so then take us again to the case. So that you realized that… David, you’ve been mapping this group from the prime down. We’ve found a pockets belonging to a person dwelling right here in Manhattan that’s been sending cash to this group. What occurs subsequent?
Dan:
Tons of warbles.
David:
No. Dan and I had been at the preliminary phases engaged on this case. So I’ll say the very first thing we did was began to write down authorized course of to get the data from the alternate that recognized her as the one who arrange the account that despatched the preliminary transaction. After which as soon as we knew who she was, type of get a greater sense of who she is and what different accounts she could be utilizing, which then led to a search warrant on her electronic mail account. And Dan or Ed might leap in and speak about some of the actually fascinating issues that we discovered.
Ed:
I feel Dan ought to have the ability to do it since I wasn’t even concerned in this level. I didn’t even know that this was occurring but after which I can type of leap in.
Dan:
No, completely. So I feel to Dave’s level, authorized course of, so subpoenas and people are actually helpful. And I feel one of the issues that comes up in investigation of all kinds in regulation enforcement, however significantly in cryptocurrency and these advanced issues, is the thought of taking place rabbit holes. And in the event you’re persevering with to go down this rabbit gap, you’re not going to provide you with something. It’s going to be a dry gap. However in this case, we by no means I feel, went too far down a rabbit gap with out discovering one thing that stated, all proper, we want further course of right here.
We have to go additional and truly subpoena that subsequent electronic mail deal with or that cellphone quantity, as a result of all the time one thing there. There was all the time one other there. However primarily in the emails, what we discovered was that she was speaking with two people that once we traced their electronic mail addresses again in open supply, so that is simply merely Googling stuff.
We noticed that they had been prolific HTS and Malhama Tactical affiliated people. The one man was a German citizen that was combating there and he would principally… His byline on his telegram chat account was a German Mujahid documenting the on a regular basis life of Mojahidin Shem. And that electronic mail was the very same deal with, in order that was a extremely fascinating piece.
And the different man, Musab Sharqiya, and we simply touched on this in the presentation, however he was an entire clean gap. We couldn’t discover something on his title. It wasn’t an actual title. We had been involved that it was simply somebody that was utterly unidentified, which might be possibly even worse, as a result of that particular person may very well be right here in the metropolis as properly, or in the US quite.
However then we popped in the title to Google after which pulled up a YouTube channel, a Instagram channel, and had all this data on this man. And we began to understand that, she’s truly speaking with these people and he or she desires to ship this cash. She’s not being paid by somebody right here in the US. It was on her personal volition. And that was one of these bizarre ones, as a result of up till about, I’d say six months into the case, we thought that she was getting paid, or that was one of the prospects that she wasn’t doing this on her personal volition. So it was good to get that intent and say, “Hey, look, we are able to begin making additional investigatory steps.”
David:
Properly, for us, there was by no means any query that she was the one which carried out the transactions. One of the hardest components about doing the terrorism financing case is proving that she supposed that the cash that she despatched was going to assist terrorism abroad. And that’s why we did these early search warrants to peel again the layers, to see what she was saying to the different people that she was sending cash to, what was her on-line exercise.
And that’s once we began discovering her Twitter account the place she was praising HTS. We discovered emails the place she was speaking about coordinating funds in order to do Jihad abroad. And at that time, there was no query as to what her intent was. After which that began a complete different sequence of occasions, investigative occasions that we did, which began discovering much more proof.
Ian:
It’s actually fascinating as a result of I feel we’ve seen over the years a quantity of campaigns the place teams had been fundraising on-line, like social media advertisements, principally, however they’d masks the true intent. In some instances, not very properly masking. It’s like donate to assist orphan youngsters who’ve been caught in the conflict in Syria. However in the event you appeared one step nearer, it was very clearly going to Hezbollah or one of the different militant organizations, ISIS working in the area. So it’s fascinating that you just had been capable of finding this very direct intent the place there wasn’t even a veil of, oh, I’m sending cash to assist one thing innocuous and never dangerous. It’s like, oh no, I’m right here to fund terrorist exercise.
David:
In some methods we acquired fortunate. She was fairly intelligent on-line. Clearly now we have some nice messages and we confirmed some of them throughout the presentation and all through the trial, however that was only a fragment or a fraction of our general communications with terrorists abroad. We solely acquired bits and items. Simply trying over her cellphone, she had three years value of communications with these guys, and we solely had bits and items that she both forgot to delete, or selected to save lots of on her telephones for no matter purpose.
Ian:
Did she use an actual identification with the crypto alternate whenever you subpoenaed there, or was it.
David:
Sure. She did.
Ian:
Attention-grabbing.
David:
However for her pockets although, she used a noncustodial pockets, and he or she didn’t use her actual title. She didn’t have to make use of any title. There was zero KYC that was required for her to arrange that pockets, and he or she knew that. So it was very a lot a circumstantial case in some methods, as a result of we had rather a lot of proof that pointed to her, some extra direct than others. However it was simply the general quantity and quantity of proof that recognized her.
Actually, her protection at the trial, at the least as much as three quarters of the approach by means of, was that it wasn’t her in any respect, that another person had assumed her identification and carried out all of these transactions that another person had been the one which communicated with these terrorists, which was so asinine as a result of we actually discovered footage of the terrorists on her telephones. And footage that she had spliced of herself in with the terrorists to point out that they had been in some kind of relationship.
Dan:
Sorry, Dave, to not interrupt, however I wish to take from the CT facet of issues to provide you slightly background on Malhama Tactical, the particular person Salman Belarusi, he’s speaking about. He was a man that in the Syrian Civil Battle, he was prolific for his operational safety. You could possibly not discover a image of him on the market with out his masks on. He all the time was masked up and to the level the place he truly faked his personal demise at one level throughout the Syrian Civil Battle, after which re-emerged as one other man Abu Rofiq, or the different approach round. It was Rofiq after which he turned Abu Salman. So the undeniable fact that once we went on these telephones and we discovered footage of him simply lounging round the barracks, having a Coca-Cola, we had been like, oh, they actually had been shut speaking companions.
Ian:
Was there a romantic relationship? It seems like maybe-
David:
Considerably romantic relationship.
Ian:
They didn’t meet in particular person, so there was no-
David:
This can be a little bit exhausting to say precisely what their relationship was.
Ed:
I might say as someone who got here in late and was adjusting to all of this at first, it struck me slightly odd, however I feel in this point in time, there are those that they’d name a relationship the place they by no means meet. And it’s a real romantic relationship the place they’re purely on-line realizing that they had been by no means going to fulfill. Keep in mind it was an impossibility. She was by no means going to get to Syria. That was an impossibility of it. So it allowed it to only proceed in this manner. And it was one thing that I used to be like, properly, this doesn’t make sense. After which whenever you took it into that kind of context of no, individuals do have these on-line relationships, it made it appear slightly bit extra affordable. One factor I simply wish to contact, I feel Dave stated, “Oh, we had been fortunate.”
And that’s true of any prison investigation. Luck performs a component of it, however you’ll be able to say that about something in life. The query is, are you working exhausting sufficient and are you being vigilant sufficient that when your break comes alongside, are you there to take benefit of it and uncover it? And that’s what these guys had been doing. They might have rotated at any time and been like, that is loopy, or this isn’t that a lot cash.
However they stored going as a result of they’re like, this must be one thing there. And by doing so, you uncovered a really harmful particular person working in New York Metropolis for a really unhealthy group. And I feel that was a key half that I simply wish to say. It’s simple to promote ourselves quick generally and be like, “Oh, luck had rather a lot to do with it.” Properly, you continue to stored going and you continue to persevered and you continue to have the annals, so that you type of made your individual luck in that approach.
David:
Ed, I’m sorry. I’m simply so glad you introduced that up. And I simply wish to add two quick factors in.
Ed:
Completely.
David:
And this was proof at the trial, so it’s no shock to anyone. She claimed to be Belarusi’s fiancee. I don’t assume that they… We don’t have any proof they ever acquired engaged, however she clearly considered herself…
Ian:
In her head.
David:
… in her personal thoughts as having that sort of romantic relationship with him. And two, to Ed’s level, I’m so glad he introduced it up. At the DA’s workplace in Manhattan, we’re the solely native DA’s workplace in the whole nation that I do know of that has a devoted crew for counterterrorism instances. We now have 4 full-time analysts who’re consultants in all issues’ terrorism, and now we have devoted investigators, and we work with NYPD’s crew, which is even larger than ours and have related experience. However it was so essential for us as prosecutors to grasp the panorama as a result of in any other case, when a case like this walks in, if we hadn’t been ready at the outset, we’d’ve had no thought methods to deal with it.
Dan:
And to that time [inaudible 00:19:33], one fast level. We speak about low greenback quantity of instances, and I feel that at the state and native degree, individuals which might be taking a look at cryptocurrency enabled crimes. They need to pursue these small greenback quantity instances, since you by no means know the place it’s going to guide. And at the federal degree, they could say, “Properly, we don’t have the sources to pursue $500,” however we do at the native degree.
Ian:
I really like this story and the level you’re making about having individuals with the experience to analyze digital elements of a criminal offense, as a result of I discuss to rather a lot of individuals from round the nation, and I feel that’s their greatest problem, is that they have an enormous caseload. They’ve possibly one skilled investigator who’s catching every thing they usually simply can’t observe every thing by means of. So it’s terrific that you just’ve acquired a broader set of sources right here, significantly on a subject with the urgency of counter-terrorist financing.
David:
And cryptocurrency, and I ought to do a shout-out to the lab. We now have in all probability one of the most preeminent digital labs in the nation, if not the world. So once we acquired these telephones in from the search warrant, they had been processed and able to be extracted and analyzed within-
Dan:
48 hours.
David:
… 24 hours. In order that velocity at which we’re in a position to do these advanced instances and get proof from cell telephones and different gadgets is exclusive and important.
Ian:
Now, one factor I’m all the time interested by is you’ve now acquired a reasonably good image of the case. It’s clear that there’s cash shifting to a terrorist group. When you get these electronic mail search warrants, you’re in a position to set up there’s intent behind it. Do you instantly go and arrest the particular person at that time? Or do you surveil them for longer to doubtlessly uncover a wider community? How do making a decision on that?
Ed:
Properly, I feel, and that is the place I can help in my perspective, all of it relies on every case. Right here, the finest proof that they recovered was from the cell telephones. Any arrest earlier than that will’ve been… I felt they made the proper selection, they’d’ve been untimely after which there’s a complete bunch of issues that will’ve occurred. So it actually relies on what you get in these instances and evaluating what power you’re. I feel it’s all the time a good suggestion to just remember to’re able to go. Don’t make an early arrest except you completely must. Ensure you have all of your proof. In case you’re banking on getting evidence-
Ian:
By means of the arrest.
Ed:
… by means of the arrest, that’s a troublesome problem. And that would additionally impede your investigation, not harm your possibilities of success. The important thing half of why this was profitable was a seamless partnership between NYPD and the Manhattan DA’s workplace, and the way the investigation was going to be taken down when the arrest was going to happen. The coordination of the search warrant that Dan talked about throughout his presentation, having the Manhattan DA’s, that unit, the high-tech evaluation unit current, so we acquired the telephones and that she was not in a position to destroy that proof, as a result of we had anticipation that we weren’t going to have the ability to arrest her. So these steps had been key to success and I feel that all the time a case by case foundation, however right here, I feel that was the proper transfer. It was clearly the proper transfer.
Ian:
I’m interested by, so when you make the arrest, clearly then you definitely’re getting ready for trial. And I feel one of the difficult issues about any case the place there’s digital proof, however in explicit cryptocurrency, it’s very technical and also you’ve acquired to current that to an viewers that they’re not spending all day lengthy fascinated about crypto. And what’s the technique, whether or not it’s a choose or a jury trial, that you just’re in a position to lay out successfully speaking the info after they’re very technical in nature.
Ed:
And that is the place it was virtually useful that I wasn’t concerned early on, as a result of these guys had been properly in the weeds of cryptocurrency. And I had a loosely affiliated affiliation. Cash launderers use cryptocurrency and narcotics trafficking. I’d achieved rather a lot of cash laundering instances. I used to be very acquainted with that crime. After which I heard cryptocurrency, I’m like, whoa, okay. I don’t know. And I had an analyst come down and clarify it to me. And I’m like, okay.
So I type of simply remembered listening to how I used to be in a position to take that data that she gave me and was in a position to sit there and be like, that’s what we have to do for a jury, as a result of they’ll perceive it. When it boils all the way down to it, it’s going to be she’s sending cash to a foul actor to do unhealthy issues. We simply acquired to get the jury to not get misplaced in the weeds of all this information of what cryptocurrency is.
And that was once we used… We had been speaking to Beth Bisbee and different groups that different individuals at chain evaluation too, had been helping us in understanding the transactions and various things. And we actually simply broke it down and be like, look, we actually want to clarify this to an uninformed jury pool that doesn’t have any familiarity with it. And in reality, it was humorous once we had been selecting our jury, everyone that had a familiarity of cryptocurrency knew about this case and was truly taken off the jury, as a result of that they had earlier data of it. So it was simply fascinating, but it surely was kind of a small world and I feel-
Ian:
So you bought a preselected pool principally that had zero data of crypto strolling in virtually.
Ed:
I feel we had one jury that was like, “I do know what that is, and I do know that everybody’s going to ask me what’s going on.” And we didn’t wish to have competing skilled, and it was an excellent jury pool, however kind of like that time. However I feel it’s simply, that’s our job as prosecutors, which is what I [inaudible 00:25:16] my presentation. Dave’s talked about that he dealt with intercourse crimes. He needed to clarify DNA proof. I dealt with narcotics trafficking instances. I must clarify the place the medication come from, how heroin is damaged down right into a heroin mill, different elements of that. So identical to cryptocurrency, terrorist finance is a really huge time period, however you’ll be able to break it all the way down to now we have a defendant right here sending cash to unhealthy actors abroad to do unhealthy issues. And so long as we stored that focus, the jury was proper with us the entire time.
Ian:
That’s superb. Now, I wish to return to one thing, David, that you just talked about earlier. You stated that the defendant modified their protection technique three quarters of the approach by means of the trial. They went from saying that they had nothing to do with it. Their identification had been stolen. What did they alter to? What was the-
David:
Properly, the protection in the end in this summation, as a result of they might not deny that it was her as a result of the proof was so robust that she was the one answerable for the communications and the transactions in the end was that, which is basically, I feel, a really unhealthy protection. However their protection was, “Properly, the Syrian terrorist group wasn’t that unhealthy,” and-
Ian:
Sorry, I’ve to snort slightly bit.
David:
Properly, Syria is a sophisticated place.
Ian:
Share the title of that lawyer with me later, and I’m going to ensure to-
Ed:
Properly, I’ll give them a break. That they had a tricky shopper and there wasn’t a lot to say. They needed to say one thing.
David:
And Syria is a sophisticated place. The group was not solely attempting to determine their very own violent Jihadist state inside Syria, they had been battling towards the Syrian regime and likewise Russia. So there have been some frequent enemies that the protection might level to, to say, “Hey, they’re combating Russia. We’re combating Russia, so possibly they’re not that unhealthy.” However at the finish of the day, the two wrongs don’t make a proper. And this was a foul group, regardless of the undeniable fact that they had been additionally combating teams or international locations like Russia and the Assad regime in Syria.
Ed:
In a approach, in the event you had been a juror on this case, you bought educated on cryptocurrency, terrorist financing, and likewise the Syrian Civil Battle. And this group that you just’ve by no means heard of as Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham and their navy coaching operation of Malhama Tactical. In order that was rather a lot for them to digest.
Ian:
Simply announcing that will kill me proper there.
Ed:
It took me very lengthy to get these down. And I don’t know if… I nonetheless don’t know if I’m proper. There’s no option to can name me out if I’m mistaken.
Ian:
After which simply to wrap the story, so the conviction was simply handed down not too long ago. You wish to inform that story?
Ed:
I feel, properly, Dave gave an important summation that actually was lined the entire whole breadth of her prison exercise from the begin. And the jury was given the case, I feel, very early on, and inside three hours, Convicted that it was… I feel Dave stated it was three weeks. I really feel prefer it was a four-week trial. I feel it was jury choice took per week, after which we had three weeks of testimony.
Dan:
4 week trial.
Ed:
4-week trial, they usually deliberated for lower than three hours. Convicted the defendant on all counts.
Ian:
Congratulations.
David:
Thanks very a lot.
Ian:
Massive win for nice effort right here. Gents, thanks for coming to Hyperlinks. Thanks for sitting right here with us on the podcast and sharing the success. Right here’s to many extra in the future.
Ed:
Thanks very a lot.
Ian:
Completely.
David:
Thanks for having me. It’s actually a pleasure.
Ian:
All proper.
Ed:
Thanks guys.
David:
I apologize.